14 touch points to get your first meeting in B2B!? The new B2B playbook with Serena Lam

How Serena Leveraged AI to Revolutionise Go-to-Market Strategies & Her Founder Journey

Discover how Serena, founder and CEO of Fuzzy, is transforming B2B sales with AI agents and her insights on startup life, funding, and the future of work. From her experience on Chinese TV to building an innovative go-to-market platform, this episode offers actionable advice for founders and aspiring professionals alike.

Main Topics Covered:

• Serena’s unexpected appearance on Chinese Shark Tank and her global expansion
• How Fuzzy uses AI to streamline modern sales processes with increased touchpoints
• Practical startup advice: financial safety nets, runway calculation, and risk tolerance
• The significance of accelerator programs and choosing the right mentorship
• The evolving landscape of education, AI’s role in careers, and leveraging new tools 
• Building resilience through rejection, persistence, and digital presence

Timestamps: 

00:00 - Serena's surprise appearance on Chinese Shark Tank and upcoming TV debut 

00:54 - The story behind Fuzzy’s AI-powered go-to-market platform

01:54 - The new normal of 14+ touchpoints needed to reach customers 

02:52 - Strategies for financial safety nets and managing runway as a founder 03:56 - Parental lessons on financial independence and investment 

04:54 - How to determine your startup runway and lifestyle adjustments 

06:07 - Choosing the right accelerator: mentorship, support, and experience 07:38 - The importance of community, networking, and sector support in Singapore and Australia 

08:35 - The value of perseverance, rejection, and constant iteration 

09:29 - The misconception of overnight success and the founder journey 

10:32 - Embracing rejection and following up for big wins 

11:27 - The mindset of hustle, consistency, and “embarrass yourself more” 

12:18 - Serena’s journey into accelerators and lessons from Southeast Asia's top programs 

13:34 - Selecting the right mentorship based on experience and field relevance 14:59 - The shifting role of universities versus accelerated learning through AI tools 16:17 - The potential of AI to replace routine work but not strategic thinking 

17:36 - The impact of operating in ecosystems (Singapore vs Australia) for founders 19:45 - Challenges faced by the Australian startup ecosystem and the need for stronger support 

21:13 - Breaking into markets and how to get started with minimal risk 

22:00 - Fuzzy’s platform: reducing tool clutter and automating outreach 

23:04 - Serena’s AI agent connecting with other tools for seamless workflows 25:07 - Overcoming content overthinking, building online presence, and authentic engagement 

28:47 - The future of AI, creative skills, and the importance of problem-solving 31:07 - The value of internships, volunteering, and gaining experience early 

32:34 - The relevance of traditional university education versus rapid AI learning 35:48 - The power of accelerators and mentorship for avoiding costly mistakes 37:21 - The support that comes from experienced founders and creating confidence for women 

38:14 - Serena’s upcoming plans in Sydney and her global ambitions

Resources & Links:

• Fuzzy AI Platform - Explore Serena’s AI go-to-market platform
• Iterative Accelerator - Southeast Asia's leading startup accelerator
• Claude AI - AI tool used for content and research
• LinkedIn – Connect with Serena

Connect with Serena:

• LinkedIn

Additional Notes:

• Serena emphasizes the importance of resilience, persistence, and continuous learning in startup life.
• The episode challenges perceptions around university education and highlights the accelerating role of AI in careers and education.
• Practical tips include calculating runway, choosing supportive accelerators, and building authentic online presence. Enjoy this conversation full of inspiring founder stories, strategic insights, and practical advice for navigating the future of work and startups.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Welcome to Fiery Fams, the podcast where high-achieving women build wealth, redesign their careers, and create lives with real freedom. I'm Sheena, an accredited investor, former tech sales professional, and the founder of Fiery Femes. After a decade across global SaaS, startups, and my own reinventions, I realized the most powerful thing a woman can have is optionality. So in every episode, we explore the future of work, the psychology of wealth, and the practical strategies that help women build careers and lives that evolve as fast as they do. Basically, I wanted to know, uh obviously it's like a combination of go-to-market tools. What tools would you liken it to?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

It's gonna sound cliche, but there isn't a tool that's exactly like us. So we have parts that's like a polo, parts that like an AISDR, we've also parts that are like um Tapio, which is building a brand. How we think of it is the modern go-to-market salesperson will be completely different um in 2026. We're seeing now even trends in how you're doing sales in 2026 is completely different to how you do it in 2025. So even that motion itself is very different. And so how we think about it is how do we then build a tool stack around the modern-day salesperson? And so in the past, you would just need to build pipeline or do outreach. But now, as a salesperson, you need to do so much more. You need to be able to have people trust you online. Are you showing up? Are you commenting on your prospect's feed? Are you finding the right people to reach out to? Are they warm? And then off the back of that, are you writing the right message? And so there's so many more components now to be able to reach out to your customer. One of the things that we've heard now is you need now 14 touch points before a customer will even take a meeting with you because now there's so much noise online, so much AI generated content, they can also look at your website as well. And so being able to reach out to a customer, getting time with them is so much more harder. And so how we've built fuzzy is we've actually encapsulated all these other features as well. It's how do you then comment on their posts? How are you appearing on their newsfeed? Are you relevant? And then off the back of that, are you sending messages that are relevant to them? So now we're seeing sales completely transform in just one year. And so when we think about building fuzzy, it's not what the old tool stack looks like, it's what is needed today as a modern-day salesperson.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

I can't believe that that is how much touch point is needed now. But also I can because you you can feel it and you can see it yourself as well. I mean, as the CEO and founder, you probably get quite literally hundreds of outreach messages a day. I'm excited to try it and give it a go. Um, and with with this, what what we want to talk about today is obviously to make how do you make sure financially that you're okay to go ahead and live the founder life? Because it is difficult, it's tough. How you made sure um that you're okay. And second is uh the financial grounding that you've had from your parents and how it has been challenged potentially and what you thought about it. And uh last but not the least is what would be, I guess, like your advice to younger founders in this day and age.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Um I would I'm actually very uh atypical to what typical advice is typical advice is just go in, don't have a safety net. Um I'm on the other side where I actually believe you should have a safety net first to save up a bit of money so that you have runway. And so that way you actually have a safety net to land on. So before I even started the founder journey, I had savings of my own before I got into this and then built fuzzy. So I would actually say understand what your runway is, how much time you're willing to have without having money, and then going from there. So I I really do believe in having some some form of base.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

What did your parents teach you about like financial independence growing up? And were there was there anything that you kind of against that or something that you you don't think is right?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Um, I think my parents gave me a pretty good grounding, to be honest. Um, I think so, immigrant family, immigrant daughter, we're second generation Australians. Uh my parents are immigrants from Vietnam and you know, they came to Australia like with pretty much nothing. And so being able to start from scratch, and now I'll say both of my parents are quite successful, um, is I think you know, a lot of it is saving money and being able to either reinvest it or putting it into things that grow over time, whether it be property or shares, um, and being able to dollar cost average into things. And so, because I've had savings, I've been able to lean on that, and a lot of my investments have been able to fund um some of the work that I do now as well. Um, in terms of financial grounding, um, I think it's the typical things like, you know, don't spend on the wrong thing, spend with spend under your means. You know, one of the things that I have always lived by is um even though I made, you know, in my last job I made quite a bit of money, uh, live like a student because you don't need to spend it all. I mean, obviously you'd go for the fine dining here and there, but then you can take that money, reinvest it, and you can double it, triple it, or even even more. So um I'm actually of the notion of, you know, always if you uh you don't need to spend a lot. Um, I mean, if unless it makes you a lot happier, but for me, if I spend like a student vest spending like a like a super rich person, I get the same amount of satisfaction as long as I just do like little things that make me happy. So I would, if you can, it reinvest early and have some form of financial stability early on, um, if possible.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

When you thought about like becoming a founder, was it something active that you knew you were going to be a founder, hence you need to build up this big financial cushion?

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Yeah, um, I always knew I wanted to be a founder. Um, so I don't I'm not sure if a financial cushion is the right word. Like I didn't I mean I had like two years worth of runway, um, which is something that I did think about, but was that the reason why I saved? I don't know if that was a complete reason why I saved because I could have chosen either to reinvest the money or put it into the founder journey and I decided to put in the founder journey instead.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

And um with the with a runway, I'd love to know, and for for you to share it with the audience as well, who have the same aspirations to become a founder, tell us about how you've calculated your runway and if you had to make some changes in your lifestyle as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Um so think about what your minimum spend is every month and then times it by how long you think you need. So for me, it was my minimum spend times 18 months. Um it was pretty, yeah, pretty simple. But I think it was the key is minimum spend, not current spend. So I definitely in the past, you know, would go out to fine dining a bit more, I'd go on the holiday a bit more. So cutting back on those sort of things. Um, and that helped me extend my runway a bit more. Um, and then that's it, really. So figuring out and working backwards from there. So what do you need to live on every day? And obviously, you don't want to make it miserable as well. Like if you go too thin on finances, you end up having a really bad time and then you end up hating the founder journey. So like pay yourself an amount that you'd be happy with. Um and then yeah, and then also give yourself a deadline. Like, you know, are you hitting the milestones over each month? If you're not, then you know, is this still the right journey for you? If not, should you go back to working and being really honest with yourself is this is the right path that you should pursue. And are you actually hitting those milestones? And if you're not, then you know, should you be considering a job? Um, one of the things that I don't know if this is helpful, but one of the things my mentor said to me was um, people spend seven years to go to law school to go become a lawyer, but people don't necessarily spend seven years to figure out how to be a startup founder. And he said there's no startup founder he's met that spent seven years that hasn't made it to a million. And so if you take that in perspective, do you want to spend the seven years? Are you okay to wait seven years, just like if you were to become a lawyer? Or would you rather just have that safety net continuously? And so I think it comes to each person's risk tolerance and if they're willing to wait or forego that amount of time, and if there are certain milestones they're willing to hit and not hit um when they when they are a founder. These are very personal questions as well, because everyone's circumstances are so different.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Absolutely. Uh, and it depends on someone's risk tolerance as well. Um a lot of people would want to go on the founder journey, but absolutely different people have different risk tolerances. Um, and it's amazing to hear that for those people who are thinking about becoming a founder um or getting a a law degree, um medical degree, um, for seven, ten years, and what how long you're willing to persevere and eventually get that pot of gold in that journey.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think that really put things in perspective. Like, you know, people are willing to go to med school and law school, but people aren't willing to put in the same amount of time as a founder. And it's like the reward is the same, but then you don't put in the time. And a lot of people are they see the whole, you know, overnight success and they think it takes one year or it takes a few months. And it's not like that founder is a hard journey. You learn things, you figure out things, and you push from there. So um, yeah, I think that's like really good perspective to think about when you are a founder. It's not meant to be overnight success, it's like a block-by-block um journey.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

And you also get a lot of rejections as well. I think getting rejected is something people, normal people just don't expect or don't enjoy getting. But I personally have a rejections folder in my um inbox just to be like, okay, these are all the rejections that you have. And maybe in the next month or whatever we can think of to like reach out to them again and try again.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yeah, nice. I love that. I love that. You gotta try many times until you fail. One of my friends just signed a $25 million deal and he had like 20 follow-ups with no replies. So it's like it works for sure. Good on him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

I love that. That that is good inspiration.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Yeah, I love it. It's like, you know, you gotta hustle. And it's like none of them replied. You could see it, it's like boom, boom, boom, boom, no one replied. And then later they replied it's a $25 million deal.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

What? I'm so excited about to hear this on what this deal is about when it's out in the media and whatnot.

unknown 12:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Can you send it to me where when it's like in public?

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Yeah, uh, perfect. And can you tell us about um the journey that you went on with Fuzzy? Um, I know that you went in on an accelerator. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. So a lot of people have not heard of an accelerator program. Um can you tell us about your journey and how you got into the accelerator program that you had?

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Yeah. So um accelerator programs essentially you put you part of a program and you're mentored by a group of people that is essentially meant to take you to the next level and help you fundraise. Um, I was part of One Put Iterative. Uh, they were very and they also give you money, so I forgot about that as well. So just like YC, they give you money. Um how did you find out about iterative? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm a big believer in learning from very smart people. Um, and so when I started the founder journey, I just started going to events and listening. And I think a big part of me is I just wanted to be around very intelligent founders. And so iterative, funnily enough, it's actually one of um Southeast Asia's best uh accelerators, and I didn't know that at the time. Um uh I think Singapore's best, um, all the founders XYC. And so um I went to a talk and I remember hearing one of the MDs speak, and I think it was just very smart, and so I knew that I wanted to be around him because I just wanted to learn from him. Uh, and that's the reason why I applied. And then later I found out it was like a 0.8% acceptance rate and all that kind of stuff, and very competitive. So I but I didn't know that. I think I just went in blind. I was like, this guy seems smart, I want to learn from him, put in an application that day, got an interview, and then got in. So I didn't expect, I didn't know it was competitive because I didn't feel like it was. I just applied based off um me really liking and hearing from them. And then also as I was going through the interview process, a lot of them were all ex-founders and they're a program run by ex-founders. So um, granted, something to think about for accelerators, not all accelerators are equal. They don't also, I think, you know, when founders think about this, they need to think about the equity. How much willing equity are they willing to give up? Um, are they actually going to get the support they needed? Think about the time investment. Some accelerators are not good, and you would spend time there, and that's wasted time as well, and time is money. So I would consider that if you are spending time with these people, are they giving you the right advice as well? And so I think really cool thing about iterative, which I really appreciated, was they're all done by ex-founders, and everyone who's mentoring you has either started their own company, sold their company, and so they've come from past experience. Um, and a lot of the time when they give you advice, it's very, it's very founder advice because it's relevant. And I think you know, you have the same problem you go to like someone who was um who's currently in corporate, their advice will be completely different. And so I would encourage, you know, when founders are going, not just from an accelerator program, but when you get any advice in general, is have they worked in your specific field? Have they done what you've done before? Have they um had to solve the problems that you've solved? And if they haven't, then I wouldn't take their advice. Um, and even if I have, I would also take it, you know, you think about if advice is correct for you because not all advice is equal.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

That's a great, great reminder because you are right. And um, your non-founder friends would always have your you would think the best in your best interest at heart, but you really have to decipher whether, where are they coming from, have they done this before? How much exposure have they had with a founder life?

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Definitely, definitely. Like they and they they definitely have the best intentions, right? When people give you advice, it's because they care about you. But sometimes, you know, let's use corporates as an example. Like they have all the resources in the world and they have an unlimited budget. And so the advice they give is like, oh, just spend money on marketing, which isn't really the best ROI if you're a founder because it's not targeted. Generally, a marketing budget works if you have messaging that has worked and you want to amplify it. But then as a corporate, you're like, you already have that. And so not having that context, you'd give that advice, but it doesn't actually work for a founder who doesn't have a early stage founder, sorry, in terms of like a consistent messaging to send to their customers. So even something as small as that could be completely different in terms of the advice you'd give and receive as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Absolutely. So yesterday, just to share with the audience, uh, yesterday I was working at a cafe, and um, you know, Sunday is typically when people catch up for brunch with their friends. So I was like in this cafe just doing my thing, and I was overhearing people uh on the on the next table, and they were talking about the strategic vision and the decision makers can't make decisions, and but who is doing what? And all I thought was, wow. They have so many, it sounds like they have so many resources.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yeah, exactly. And it's it's I mean, it's very relevant in their part of the world, but not relevant for a founder because a founder, you just need to grow quick and and don't die, they say, right? Grow quick and don't die.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Yeah, and you gotta test, test and have a look at the data and um implement if needed. Implement changes if needed. Yep. Um, and I would love to know with the journey that you've had, how is it have you made any differences or changes in your lifestyle? And I also know that you moved to Singapore, you were in Singapore now from Australia. Is that because of um the founder's journey, or you just happened to be in Singapore when you started?

SPEAKER_00 18:19

A little bit of both. I did happen to be in Singapore, but I do think Singapore's incredibly supportive of the AI scene. They bring in a lot of people to help, and there's a lot of government support, and they're pushing it forward. Like, and it I mean, now as an Australian coming to Singapore, I think previously, as you know, when you're in Australia, I think the government is not as supportive, I'd say, compared to to Singapore. And Singapore is like they have programs on, you can there's they bring in really great speakers for founders to listen to. Like I've met, like I met the Grok founder, you know, you just don't get those experiences in Australia. Um, and they they openly push it. And so I think that the support that you get is very different from a founder point of view. Um, and the ecosystem's a lot tighter here. I'm not sure if it's because of density, it could just be purely density, but there's a lot happening here, and every there's like literally an event on every single day, and you have to really decipher which is a good event, which is a bad event, etc. And so um it's quite full-on in terms of like the ecosystem here. Um, granted, there are amazing builders in Australia as well, but it's just a lot more denser in Singapore compared to compared to Melbourne and potentially Sydney as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

I mean, you're absolutely right. I think uh the Australian startup ecosystem just lives because the Australian ecosystem lives by itself, but the support from the government is absolutely lacking. I can I I can see that. Um have you heard of fish burners? Mm. I I don't know if you saw, but they um they're going through uh administration.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Wow, no, I didn't know that. Oh gosh. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

And I was I was so shocked because I remembered attending their events back in 2012. Um and they they've been around for so long, and you would think that the government would step in as the eco it's kind of one of the hearts of the ecosystem.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Yeah, damn, that's really sad to hear. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the thing. Like I think there's very little support on startups in Australia.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah, definitely. So um I'm actually looking at uh either moving to the Netherlands or Singapore because of let me say I'll probably I'll probably cut this bit out. But it's just yeah, it's just like really lacking and I feel for the the founders who who have already established in Australia.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think I yeah, I've heard a lot about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah, I I bet there's uh a few more going um going to Singapore as well. Yes. Got it, got it. Um and what would you say, Serena, is uh, you know, being a founder now and you probably get outreach quite a lot. What is the common what is the common questions asked by I think young founders from you?

SPEAKER_02 21:29

I don't think a lot of young founders are outreached to me actually.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

I think more it's to test their product. I think that's probably the main one. But um Are you like in in terms of advice or oh like I think okay, actually, so advice would be the number one thing is like you know, what should I do? Which is such a broad question. Um, but I always say just get started. Uh, you know, the world makes it so much easier to build, you can vibe code anything now. You are literally the only person that's limiting yourself. So yeah, just you know, it's not expensive to create a lovable, it's not expensive to have a claude code subscription. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

I just get started, play around with it, build your thing, and then launch it.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Build the thing, just do it, don't overthink it. And you're right, we have so many tools in this day and age.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yeah. Well, that's one of the things that we're hoping to solve at Fuzzy is to have less tools. And so that's one of the things that we think about is how do we make it easier for our user? Have you never removed all these different tools so they can just focus on the one? Our AI agent helps you do the whole stack from the top, complete top of funnel.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

I am so excited to get my hands on this because I was literally just thinking about, I'm like, okay, so back in the days, I was using LinkedIn SalesNav, Outreach, SendBloom. Um but now there's Apollo, Lucia, Clay. I'm not sure what else. Zoom info is obviously there, but very expensive. Um and questi yeah, very expensive subscription. So yeah, really excited to have a play with this. And it's an AI agent as well, you said.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Correct. Correct. An AI agent that plugs into other AI agents and helps you research. Build lists, build campaigns, build your content, depending on what you need to be done. And it connects to a bunch of different agents that helps you build out your entire workflow.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

That's amazing. I I feel like my mind will be blown once like I have a play with it. Excited. Yeah. Is it is it live globally? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Yep. Live globally. So you can just sign up on our website and good to go. I can send you a few.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, definitely. And I'll share it with uh the audience as well. So for the B2B founders. And it do you have B2C founders as well, or is this more perfect for B2B?

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Pure B2B. Yeah, for B2B founders. So founders who are focusing on LinkedIn, email. That's the channels that we primarily focus on.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Absolutely perfect. So B2B founders or B2B hiring managers. I know a lot of my audience is predominantly female working in tech. So have a play. And I would love to know as well, Serena. You we you probably have heard of a lot of advice for women. Whether it's like advice for um founders, female founders, or as um uh women in young corporate career. But if you meet someone who is 20 years old and they ask you what what career advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Embarrass yourself more. I think uh everyone's always, I think I've said this a few times, even for myself, and I'm working on it too. I think especially in Australia, the tall poppy syndrome is real. I think everyone's always worried about what people think, what you post online. But I think you learn the most when you are out there. And I if I look back in the last 50 years, the people who are most successful in a branding point of view in my network are the people who posted like things that they didn't really care what people thought about and just really hustled. And so um don't overthink it, just embarrass yourself more, put yourself out there, and then the second thing would be just build it and just do it, don't overthink it. I think just most people spend more time overthinking it than doing it themselves.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

I'm guilty, very guilty.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah, it's not uncommon, do not worry, it's not uncommon.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Yeah, uh I wanted to ask you is this um showing up online? Your main channel is LinkedIn, correct? Correct. And uh how long do you overthink things before posting, or do you not overthink now?

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Um, I mean I still do it sometimes. Um, but then like six hours overthink. I just try to get it done in the day because otherwise I'll forget. I used to take like months. Um now I'm just like no and let it happen. Yeah, I know, it's so bad. Because I would overthink, like, what if someone thought this about me? Now I just don't care. And I realize you know what you realize is like people don't care anyway. And if if anything, they're happy for you. And if people who do care, it's kind of like, well, it doesn't really like do you want them in your network anyway? So, you know, you should surround yourself with people who are supportive, and people who are supportive will be supporting you. So just do it. Um, and it's okay to embarrass yourself, it's okay if you know there are a bit less likes than normal. It's okay. Um, I find that my best customers are the people who've never liked or engaged in any single one of my posts. Um, and that yeah, so just do it because you don't know who else will show up.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

I agree. Yes, to this so much. I think you I personally still get it where you you're I'm concerned about the vanity metrics. But I recently held an event, it was a paid event, and I've seen people who have not, they've purchased, but they have not liked any posts whatsoever. Yeah, no comments whatsoever. They've told their friends, they brought their friends, and I'm just like, oh, it worked.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Yeah, exactly. Exactly, exactly. Like some people like, oh, I've only got five likes. I'm like, don't look at the numbers. Like that does not matter. Like, look at who actually what sales are you getting off the back of it. That's the most important.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Do you uh schedule content like way in advance, or do you just post every day?

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Uh it depends. Sometimes I just have a thought and then I post it. Sometimes I schedule a so do a mix of both.

unknown 27:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

I'll definitely schedule after our call right now because some that's something that I have like put way in the back banner. And this is such an inspiration to just do it, get it done. Just do it. And you just still know what opportunity comes out.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Exactly. Exactly. Just do it. And if anything, if it doesn't go well, you can just reproach it. Oh, something that might be interesting. I've posted the exact same thing at two different times, and one of them had three times more likes than the other one. So, like, you know what I mean? You could post the exact same thing, but just happens to be the time of the day, and you might get way more engagement in one than the other. So yeah, don't overthink it, just do it. If it doesn't work, you can post it again another time, and you might get completely different results.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Well, this is an inspiration. So that's your tip for a 20-year-old is embarrass yourself more, get out there more often, do it, just take advantage of the time that you have.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Exactly. Exactly. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

And obviously, Serena, we get a lot of we've had the experience with digital transformation, cloud, and now there's AI. A lot of graduates are worried about what the future looks like. Um based on what you've seen, what do you think AI will bring and where should they position themselves as uh workers and employees or um when they're just starting their careers?

SPEAKER_00 29:05

One of the things that AI won't replace is creativity and strategic thinking. I would encourage every single graduate to start creating stuff and think creatively and differently. Um, one of the things that, you know, when I hear an interview, they're like, oh, I've just used AI to do it, I think that's good. But then you tell me your thought process. If someone says, I just use this skill, this skill, this skill, but I'm like, okay, what did you change? If they can't, actually, do you know what skills are? Before I go into the people use these skills, Claude, so uh all of them have them now, and they'll say, Oh, I have this skill, which essentially means an instruction uh manual. If I, if they don't tell me that they've edited it or changed it or thought about what works and what doesn't work, actually shows the ability of someone's problem thinking skills. And so I would actually encourage all the graduates to like, okay, yes, use Claude and use skills, but then how are you doing it differently? Um, and I think that's what the difference will be because it's so easy to plug in any skill, but being able to differentiate and problem solve through the issues, I think is completely one of the skills that will make you differentiate amongst everyone else. And it's like, okay, I'm gonna put the controversial thing out there that people will hate. Like people should be scared uh of their jobs. Things are going to change, but the people that will stay are the people who are testing the technologies now, they're playing around with it, they're actually using it differently. Um, and they're actually putting themselves out there to use the different tools. And so the most valuable tool people will be the people who know how to use all the different tools, understand what works and what doesn't, versus the people that have never even touched it before and be like, oh, I just use GPT or something like that, or I just use that to summarize an email, which is like the worst way to use AI. Try to get yourself to level four, if not level five, and that'll make you indispensable. Um, and so yeah, I think it's so important to use AI nowadays. Um, and it's going to be something that everyone needs to think about. Um, the other tip that I would also give graduates or younger people is I think it's so interesting. I was actually listening to a podcast the other day where they were saying before in COVID, everyone was wanting their work from home benefits and they're wanting to not put in as much compared to before, but now it's going 360 where AI's taking a lot of their jobs, and a lot of people haven't had jobs for about you know six, 18, 12 months. And so, so 12, 18 months. And so if you are a student that hasn't had a job, like can you volunteer um your time? Can you get the experience? And even if you have you know a bit of experience, if that gives experience gets you an opportunity to like even a job there or the next job, I would take it. Don't be too picky. Uh try just to learn from anyone you can because if you can take that experience, that will make you way better than a person who just has not waiting for money, so to speak, and just not work for like six months. So take every opportunity you can, build things, create things.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Yeah. That that is golden, and I can't believe that people are being choosy as well, especially if you're a grad. I feel like when I was a grad, I'm just like and a job will zoom.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Have your foot in the door. Exactly, exactly, exactly. And I think we're seeing it. I think six months ago, maybe eight months ago, people were super choosy and now they can't be. I'm hearing Stanford grads that are being unemployed for six months. Like it's it's I'm hearing it from from from straight from the valley. So it's it's definitely a thing. And so there's a joke where they're like, oh, they're gonna apply, they're gonna apply for an accelerator instead before they find a job because I can't find a job, which is kind of funny.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Yeah, I I I get the joke. Um, I actually worry for universities as well, because I I don't I applied for like a university a master's program uh earlier this year, and I just thought, how relevant is this gonna be?

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Yeah. I'll I'll be honest, I don't think they'll be.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

I don't think they'll be, if I'm honest. By the time they learn it and they get the content, that's already two or three generations behind. Things are moving at a every few days. It's not even like a week now. And so by the time someone puts it into a syllabus, that's six months behind. So yeah, I don't know. But I'm a bit maybe because I'm dealing with all this every day.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

I already dropped out. Um basically it was like it was like the first subject, and I thought it's one of like the top universities in Australia. This is gonna be great, it's gonna be groundbreaking. I just want to learn. And I get there, and it's basically poor user experience, there's no interaction. The the students were, I don't know what why they even were there because they weren't interacting with each other. Um the curriculum was really old school, and I knew that whatever it was asking me, I could plug into Perplexity or Claude and get the answer faster. Yeah. Um and then I looked at the ROI, potentially what this could lead me, and it it was just not there.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Yeah, exactly. Good. I think you made the right decision. You're saving your time and money.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

And I was just thinking, I'm so glad that I had uni like years and years ago. That was amazing. And it was like on campus the people were, I think like socially they could deal with each other. Um, and like just the learnings, but I I question what university will look like down the track and how people will continue to learn.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if university will be as relevant in a few years.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Let's see.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

I heard that some universities are actually putting their MBA on on discounts because there's not as much uptake as um as what it has.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

I think I think one thing MBA does do though, it's a really great networking opportunity because you've got really intelligent people who've done um because a lot of MBAs you need to have minimum years of experience and you need to get into the program. So I do think from a networking perspective, it's great. Um, but other than that, like from a knowledge point of view, like Yeah, like you said, you can just plug into Claude, Claude can teach you, you probably have an accelerated course as well, and it's delivered in your learning style as opposed to like a book that you might not read. And so yeah, being able to learn through Claude GPT, Google LM, Google Notebook LM is way better than than what you would have uh going to school, I think anyway.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

I I actually think that another hack is um going to an accelerator.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yes, definitely, definitely. Yeah, actually, no, no, that's a really good point. So I think again, I would preface this with the right accelerator because I don't think all accelerators are equal. Um, going to an accelerator, having the right people teach you things, definitely. Uh, you don't have to make the wrong mistakes and waste years of time.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

I'm interested to hear which which are like your top-tier uh accelerators.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Um, I'll I'll just talk about iterative because I guess I was in that one. Uh, because they're all run by ex-founders. So um I think they're they've done quite a great job. And it's because they've gone through the pain and the suffering. It sounds really weird, but you almost need to suffer a little bit as a founder because you know what to do in times of crisis, and they've all gone through it before and they know how much it can work out amazingly, but also how much it can suck. And so giving that different perspectives of feedback and how you can get to that step is so important because you'll save so much time.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Yeah, absolutely. I think having that support from someone who have gone through the journey, have embarrassed themselves, have have had those nights where like the products just for some reason not working, um, cash flow issues, like they they know the thing. Tax issues. Yeah. 100%. 100%. I wanted I wanted to ask those um because I thought that that was really cool when I went into the accelerator. Was I sat there and looking at the people who introduced themselves, and I was like thinking, why am I here? They're also accomplished. And they were basically like C-level um executives from their companies, people who have sold their businesses and are currently in their earnout period and just thinking, exploring what to do, people who have existing businesses, and I'm just like, wow, quite intimidating, but uh again, like a good networking as well.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Yeah, and that's that's such a I'll just put out like a female thing to feel. I feel like guys would never feel that, but um, yeah, you could you'll you'll know that, you know, a lot of time people with this big titles, big experiences just luck. And so, you know, if you put in the hours and time, you could be there as well and be the exact same position and title.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

This is very true. Thank you for the reminder. Um, well, uh you gave us your um you gave us your advice for 20-year-olds in their careers and have asked you so many questions. I really enjoyed our chat. I feel like there's so much more. Um, when are you in C D next?

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Oh, I'm not sure. Maybe actually maybe next month. Oh sorry, August potentially. I'll let you know if I am. Um, I might do a workshop there, but I'll definitely be back in Australia in July. My cousin and uh brother are getting married, so yeah, it'll be great.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

Amazing. Well, if I can help um support you in any way, let me know. Yeah, thank you. Um excited. And I I'll be in Singapore in October. My god. Okay, let me know. Exciting. Wherever we are, we'll uh I'll buy you lunch. And um again, thank you so much for being in the podcast today. I really enjoy it, and I think a lot of people will be very inspired.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Thank you. Hopefully it was fun. It was fun chatting to you as a Shana.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Thanks, Serena. I'll talk to you later. Have a good day. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Thank you for listening to another episode of Fiery Fems. If this resonated, share it with a woman in your life because we rise higher when we rise together. Don't forget to follow and review. It helps more women access the tools and conversations that build wealth and confidence. For more career and financial empowerment, come hang out on Instagram and YouTube at FieryFams. I'll see you in the next episode.