The Hidden Wealth Strategy Women Should Start Using Today with Lucy Kough

Lucy Kough - Tap the Gap

Empowering Women Through Wealth Building: Insights from Lucy Kough of Tap the Gap

In this episode, Lucy Kough, founder of Tap the Gap, shares her inspiring journey from advertising to fintech, helping women build wealth effortlessly. Discover how small, everyday actions can make a big impact on financial independence and empowerment.

Main Topics Covered:

• How Tap the Gap simplifies savings and investment through micro-actions
• The importance of behavioural change and default habits in wealth creation
• Addressing challenges and misconceptions about women and financial independence
• The role of regulation, industry gaps, and social norms in financial literacy
• How women's economic power can transform communities and the wider economy

Timestamps:

• 00:00 - Introduction to Lucy Kough and Tap the Gap's mission
• 02:00 - The journey from advertising to fintech and personal growth in financial literacy
• 05:20 - How Tap the Gap automates savings via rounding up transactions
• 08:11 - The importance of self-education and breaking wealth stereotypes
• 11:00 - Understanding all facets of the superannuation industry
• 13:52 - The structural challenges women face in finance and regulation
• 17:00 - Reframing wealth-building as a default, automated process
• 20:30 - The significant economic power of women and their role in closing the wealth gap
• 25:00 - The importance of early financial education for young women
• 28:00 - The impact of small investment actions over time and compound interest
• 33:30 - Behavioural nudges and default choices that benefit women
• 37:00 - The systemic issues affecting women's retirement outcomes
• 43:00 - The importance of nurturing diverse talent and supporting women entrepreneurs
• 47:00 - Building confidence in investing through small, incremental steps
• 53:00 - Advice for young women: start early, stay optimistic, and build habits
• 55:00 - How to get involved with Tap the Gap and upcoming features

Connect with Lucy Kough:

• Instagram - tap.thegap
• LinkedIn - Lucy Kough
   

Let’s reframe how women approach wealth with small, habitual, and automatic actions that lead to financial independence and confidence. Stay tuned for the upcoming launch of Tap the Gap in app stores!
 
 Tap The Gap:

Website:
 https://www.tapthegap.com.au/home

Download the App from the Appstore:

https://apps.apple.com/au/app/tap-the-gap/id6778287045

Linkedin:
 https://www.linkedin.com/company/tap-the-gap/about

https://apps.apple.com/au/app/tap-the-gap/id6778287045

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.tapthegap.com.au&hl=en_US

https://www.instagram.com/tap.thegap

https://www.linkedin.com/company/tap-the-gap/about/?viewAsMember=true

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucy-kough-70203389/

Join Invest Like a Women Workshop for August

https://events.humanitix.com/august-workshop-or-invest-like-a-woman

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Welcome to Fiery Fams, the podcast where high-achieving women build wealth, redesign their careers, and create lives with real freedom. I'm Sheena, an accredited investor, former tech sales professional and the founder of Fiery Femmes. After a decade across global SaaS, startups, and my own reinventions, I realized the most powerful thing a woman can have is optionality. So in every episode, we explore the future of work, the psychology of wealth, and the practical strategies that help women build careers and lives that evolve as fast as they do. Um, who is um Lucy from Tap the Gap?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Hi everyone, my name is Lucy Keogh, and I'm the founder of Tap the Gap, which uh is a tech company essentially helping women build wealth while they shop. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

I love it. I love it. It's so aligned and it's while they shop as well. So tell us about the mechanisms of that.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Yeah, great. So look, the way the product works is pretty simple, and there's three parts to it. So the first one is we connect to your bank, and every single time you use that connected um bank account, we round up every purchase to the nearest dollar, two dollars, or five dollars. So that means you might go and buy a coffee for $4.50, and that 50 cents gets rounded up and we sweep that money into your super. So that's on every single transaction, and that money is direct debited three times a week. So you hardly kind of feel it. It's like a you know, a dollar here or there. The second way that the app works is what's called brand bonus, and that's where we have over 275 brands on the platform. And when you shop with them, you get a gift from them into your super. So it's usually a percentage of the fee. So I might buy a shirt like this at the iconic and I pay $100 for it, and 5% of that would come back and we sweep that money into your super. So you've got a combination of your own money on every single purchase, and then a combination of money coming from the brands when you shop with them. And the last part of our product is education because we've found that a little bit of education bit by bit really helps grow confidence for women in that world of financial um literacy. And so, yeah, we deliver micro learning um little bits at a time to help women feel more confident with their superannuation and their attitude towards investing.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Huge and amazing work. Uh I know how much it takes to build in a regulated environment, such as uh tap a gap in health tech, wealth tech. So well done. I I I can imagine you have the battle scars along the way.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Oh yeah, yeah, there's some stories, but you know, like that's uh Well, I have written a book before because I come from a writing background. So maybe there'll be another book in me after I after I, you know, get to the other side of this thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah. Absolutely. I can just imagine. And Lucy, before we get into the nitty-gree of things, I would love to know what is something that is not what's something about you that is not list listed on your LinkedIn profile.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Ooh, this is a good question, actually. I guess what I guess what's not there is you can see that I've worked in a world of advertising and then that I've built this kind of startup. But I guess what's not really described there in detail is my knowledge and growth around super, right? And how I went from this non-financial person to becoming an expert in superannuation. Like it's sort of a bit weird, right? And look, we we have it there, but really I don't explain to people that journey, which is I actually didn't know anything about super really until about three years ago, three, four years ago. And it was working in the category when you're a creative in advertising and you have to sell something, you have to understand it intricately. And you have to understand it so well that you can communicate it to someone who doesn't know anything about it. So what people probably don't understand from my LinkedIn profile is that, yeah, I don't come from a wealth background. I've actually learnt all of this and I've or um, I guess my human lens to the experience and yeah, everything I've learned, I'm now putting into tap the gap. So I am a a super guru, but that's self-taught, you know, 10,000 hours, don't they say? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

And sometimes when it's actually your personal story, your personal interest, and you apply all that muscle into like learning, it's so much more effective because you have that personal interest in it as well. So that's really incredible that you're now a superannuation guru. And can I ask what happened along the way when during your time at advertising that you were like, wow, that there's so much to learn. I want to share this with everyone else as well.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Yeah, okay, great. Yeah, great question actually. Um, because I don't often think about that as much now, you know, as we're building and moving forward all the time. I think when I first got approached to come back to the agency I was working at, I'd worked there earlier in my career. They're a fantastic place to work. They came back and said, Look, we want you to lead this super account and we want you to do everything from brand right through to member comms. And that was kind of unusual for creative directors to work across the full gamut. And most people sort of looked and went, super fun. It's like that's a bit dull. And I looked at it really with, you know, real interest. I'm like, well, if we can take a category that's really dull, the only way is up, right? And so there's a lot of room for improvement there. Um and I think people don't consider that sort of like a sexy thing, you know, like they want to work on beer advertising or, you know, supermarkets or something. But I think if you reframe it to be, well, the opp what is the opportunity here? And that's like limitless. That's where I kind of dug in, right? And I took it on board as my own learning and self-discovery, you know, rather than feeling like a job. So yeah, as I was going and talking to lots of people about this, it was probably just a real self-discovery for myself, as well as working, if that makes sense. And I started to grow my confidence and I could see, well, what if everyone could do this? Right? Like just little by little, because you don't understand everything about super and investing, you would know straight away. And if you try and get someone to even think that they can do that, they'll just be turned off, you know? They'll be like, oh, it's a bit overwhelming, it's a bit too much, it feels too serious. So I think if, yeah, if I can align my journey of working for three and a half years on not really knowing anything about it to where I am now, that's what I'm trying to emulate in Tap the Gap.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Absolutely. And uh, it's incredible because of course when you run accounts and you you don't really know anything about, or or maybe you you know bits and pieces, you want to make sure that like you're credible. So you've researched a lot about superannuation and just make sure that when you're talking to your to your account that you actually care. So you've cared so much and have done your due diligence, extra work, extra homework to make sure that you understand their industry as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah, and and that's a really good point, actually, because you have to understand both sides. Like you have to understand the industry and the challenges that the super companies face, right? Like they've got a huge responsibility in terms of legal compliance, all of the reporting they do. Then, you know, the marketing team is only one part of that. Then you've got the product team and you've got the consumer. So I think my experience was actually I'm not sitting on one side, I could see all of it. And that's kind of unusual because normally you have someone, you know, at a super fund, like they're really living in that world all the time, and they probably don't have as much of an understanding as, you know, as we might, as people far on the outside world. I mean, the marketers do, obviously. But yeah, it's really interesting to understand all those facets, right? Because it's not as simple as just doing an ad campaign. It's really understanding fundamentally where the industry sits, you know, what are the challenges broadly with the industry? What's the history of the industry? Where's it going? Um, and that's probably what really excited me by not only understanding just a kind of thing from a communications point of view, but from a business point of view, what is this institution and how is it built? And what is kind of fundamentally wrong, like at that structural level. So yeah, yeah, I really that's a great question that you that you asked.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

I think it's great that you're in the an unusual space because I I think that's where usually where the opportunities lie as well. The unusual gray space. And again, like kudos to I was I was talking to someone earlier today, and I'm like, I question myself on like choosing this space because it's so regulated that I feel I need to be very careful with what I say, what and also like I am not providing personal advice at all. I usually refer people who do have those very specific nitigrity to advisors that I know that I've worked with, but absolutely no advice coming from my end.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

No financial advice. Like same here, we're general. Yeah, we're general advice. But I I think what's interesting about that, even as part of this journey, is you know, general advice, it is important. You need to understand the parameters of it, but literally translating what is factual advice into information that people can actually understand, that becomes classified as general advice. And I I found that really fascinating to start with. I'm like, oh, so just so that I can explain soup art to someone so they can actually understand it, I need to have a license, you know? And look, there's areas within that, right? Because I understand now better than I did when I started why I need that regulation, because you know, these are really important things. This is someone's life savings that they're putting money into. And that's really serious business. But I do find, I don't know, I just find there's great tension in the fact that, you know, in order to help everyday people, yeah, I had to jump through so many hoops to get there. And ordinarily, like, I feel like that's the responsibility of our government, right? Like, but no one is doing this job. We have the ATO and who enjoys reading the ATO website, yes, it's informative, but do people understand it? No. And that's why we've got this massive gap and this chasm of lack of engagement because our systems and our infrastructure isn't there delivering on what I believe is the responsibility of the government, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So someone has to take on the responsibility and this is you.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

I don't right now. I'm like, yeah, we could I maybe could have thought that through a little bit more, but uh Yeah, it is, but I do have people saying that to me, you know, like customers who say, Isn't this the government's responsibility? And I said, well, yes, you might frame it like that. And, you know, people in government have got a big job to do, right? Like a huge job. And that's not dissing them. I think politicians are are amazing in what they can achieve. And, you know, particularly our government right now have achieved great things for women in terms of uh equality, and there's huge changes happening in super as well. But I think there's there's yeah, there is this expectation that someone else is going to do that, and there's just such parameters around, you know, the bigger institutions, particularly the super funds, they can't move at speed and they can't, they've got all these other things to do, if that makes sense. So if that's why if we're like, can we focus on that niche of just engaging people in super and helping them build their confidence? Then we can be one part of a broader ecosystem, you know? Like I don't want to become a super fund. I don't want to take over that job from anyone. I'm like, you do you, but we're really focused on engaging more people in this, you know, in this sector, which yeah, needs needs to be treated as the sexy thing it is, which it's not right now.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yes. I think the rebrand uh or I guess in your category that's sexier for superannuation, definitely I'm all for it.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we've got a camp, we've got an ad campaign coming out soon. So yeah, yeah, keep an eye on that, um, which will be great. That will sort of really shit the category, I think.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah, I I I'll keep my eyes peeled. I'm super excited for that. And look, Lucy, obviously we we are online on a lot of things, especially on economic power with women and financial literacy for women. Yesterday I had a call with um a founder, and I told him about the start of there's actually more women over 55 is the growing, growing population for homelessness in Australia, and I think more most in like the Western world as well. And he was so surprised. And I was just like, I thought this is like a a fact that everyone knows, but it's not. So I guess one of the things that I'd love to talk to you about is around like economic power and about how women usually have the budget, but for some reason along the way, there's some mishaps that happen.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah. Yeah, it's so strange, right? It it's a similar story, I think, to, you know, you see girls ahead of the class, you know, in school, and yet, you know, they don't they graduate and they don't take the jobs sort of in the workforce, even though they've been those high achievers. So what I'd probab probably say is there's a real disparity in the way that women engage in our economy overall, right? Because if you look at things, ultimately, women make 80% of the purchase decisions. Now, that's in a household, it's 86% in the United States. That is a huge amount of economic power, right? And but you we see women are ending their lives having done all that purchase power, and you know, they're becoming homeless and they're retiring with less. So it's a really interesting, like just crux we find ourselves in to say, well, actually, you know, you can get annoyed about it, the fact that women are retiring with less and we don't get paid as much and all this, but we have a huge economic power sitting right right at our doorstep, and we're not making the most of it. And that's where tap the gap comes in, because by actually allowing women to continue to make those decisions, but every time they do put money in their future wealth, we're kind of hacking this system, right? And a lot of people haven't thought about that. There's definitely a lot of narrative around the wealth gap, the super gap in particular, and it's all about a deficit. But I think that we don't look at the optimism story, right? Which is what we can do. Like, where is our power? We need to stand in our power and go, hey, cool, I'm making that decision. I'm deciding really which car we buy. I'm, you know, deciding on insurance. I know which supermarket we're gonna shop at. Like this is powerful stuff. And I think women for themselves need to reframe that and go, yeah, cool, I'm gonna use this to my advantage rather than just being taken along and and spat out towards the end of the system, you know?

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remembered some of my friends went to Japan and they were so surprised because they the waiters give the bill to the woman.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

So Oh my gosh, I love that. That's so cool. Have you been to Japan? I have, but I've only spent a few days over there as a stopover, and I didn't, that's not something I picked up. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

So they were a couple, and then they were like, one thing that really surprised me was usually here in Australia, it would be the husband, like the they they give the bill to the husband or to the man. But in Japan, they give the bill to the woman because they know that it's the woman who controls the funds. Like they they do the budget. And I was like, that's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

I love this. There is a social post in this, I can see that. And like that's yeah, that's really fascinating. And I think what's so interesting about that is, and it's something I spoke about at Vogue Codes recently, is that um one of the questions Charlie asked me was about, you know, women and shopping and retail has always been kind of deemed as quite frivolous. And, you know, women are like, we're having retail therapy, and you know, we're we've been made to feel guilty about purchasing things and about buying things, right? And I just love that we can flip that and say, stop feeling guilty. Start feeling powerful because that's what you can do, right? Like that is where your power is. And so we don't have to fit around a system where creating a new one around the way that we already live.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Yeah, absolutely. It's like I also saw this post of why are women like getting positioned as like frivolous for like our nails, for the lipstick, for the croissance, like the little treat. When I know every maybe I I don't watch sports as much, but some of my friends, my guy friends and husband does, you know, they put like, I don't know, maybe 50 bucks, hundred bucks on like a game. I don't know what they bet on. But I'm like, yeah, how come that doesn't get talked about? And also like on Wall Street Bets, which is like a Reddit subreddit. Yeah. Have you heard of Wall Street Bets?

SPEAKER_00 18:59

No, no, I'm writing this down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

So basically Wall Street Bet is a subreddit where like people, predominantly guys or men, have would gamble their money on specific stocks. Stocks, stocks, they'll put call options, put up they'll they'll do uh calls and puts on certain stocks, betting whether they're gonna fail or they're gonna succeed at a price, but they'll put losses, they'll post their losses of like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Like and it's wild because they kind of like make fun of each other, but I'm just like yeah, so why is that not talked about, right? Like exactly, whereas like women are like, you know, like getting making fun of like the girl mask thing, the little treat thing, whereas like some people are literally making losses and posting about that on the internet just for the fun of it, it seems.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Yeah. And do you know what? Like, there's so much data that supports the way that women see future wealth creation as well. Like, um, so lots of studies, I mean, with the great wealth transfer, women are going to inherit a higher proportion of the money that's moving from the boomer generation. And they actually plan differently when it comes to wealth. You know, they're thinking about longevity and their family and you know, what they're actually gonna leave their kids. And, you know, they have more of a generational lens. They also think about impact and where that where that money is going to be spent, what kind of companies. So there's a real shift in women should really, the the biggest thing I want women to know now is this is your time, right? Like this actually is your time to stand in that economic power that you have because don't let it kind of wash over you or feel that you're not, you know, strong enough or knowledgeable enough. You've got it. Like it's it's right there in front of you. And you can make these decisions just by building a little bit of confidence, you know, and starting to take small actions. It's fascinating to see even some of our early users who started, you know, maybe five months ago, the actions that they're taking for themselves. Like we had a gorgeous user, Sam, who, you know, quoted the fact that her dad taught her brother about finance when they were growing up, but not her, right? And and I don't, I don't think it was intentional. Like, as do you know what I mean? Like intentionally, I'm gonna lock you out of this conversation. It was just something that naturally happened. You know, this is the patriarchy at work. And so here she is later in life going, hey, I kind of missed out on all of this and I want to make up for it. And, you know, we could see that um, you know, in month four of her tap the gap journey, she did actually change her investment choice in her super and she named a beneficiary. And, you know, like these are two actions for her wealth building, which are huge. Like super funds would love that to happen, you know, for their customers. Um and they might send 10 emails and get no responses. So I think you can see that it is just taking that moment to realize you can empower yourself, right? And it doesn't need to be all at once. It's just a couple of little things. And that actually sets you up, you know, for b for greater things that you want to do. And that's really that behavioral lens, I guess, that we're putting on the product. And so, you know, yes, it's a fintech, but it's it's not actually just a set of features. It's the way that we're engaging uh and timing these responses to our users in order to sort of grow that confidence, if that makes sense. So yeah, it's how do we weave this experience of building wealth into everyday stuff and everyday habits and everyday actions rather than going, oh, it's something for the future, I'll think about that later. And then that later becomes too late.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Definitely. And you're touching on the important and beneficial thing about time as well. So if people knew more that like if if only right, like when I was like in my early 20s, that I kind of knew what I know now, right? Amazing. Even if it was like maybe like five dollars a week or something, like the impact of that would be massive.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Yeah. Like even just just this idea or compassion. Interest, right, is not something we're really taught. And, you know, I think, I think it's part of one module in year 10 maths. And then superannuation is part of extension maths in year 12, which again to me surprises me because everyone will have a job at some stage, unless you're a trust fund baby. So, you know, these are fundamental skills that our kids in Australia are missing out on, right? And if they know that, then yeah, they're already ahead of it in in your point that you make. Like in your 20s, putting $5 a week away is going to be better for you than putting in masses more money later down the track. Um yeah, which is it's great to see that, you know, we've got young women using Tap the Gap and actually coming and talking to us, and they're really interested in this stuff because they know that they don't have everything that their grandparents had or even their parents had. Like the opportunities for them to build wealth are different now. And, you know, property might feel out of reach and you know, that the control that they have is not, yeah, is not exactly where they want to be. So I do find that really, yeah, really powerful for people to understand these early messages, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:23

So good. I I read an article, I think was it this morning, that says that Gen Z is actually out earning millennial women at the same age. So and I think it's because Gen Z.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Is that a combination like through earnings? Is that wages alone or just earnings based on investments and wages?

SPEAKER_01 24:41

I feel like it might be earnings because I know that uh Gen Z focused on investing in stocks versus like property. And to be fair, like with millennials, there was like the global financial crisis by the time that millennials like graduated. There's like just a few financial crises, but also Gen Z really uh studied and made sure that they they were aware about like the financial complexities early on. Um I think that's really they they invested in their education basically.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yes, yeah. And I I would agree. And I think, you know, I'm seeing as well parents, you know, wanting to get their children into tap the gap and do you know what I mean? Or into that early, because it is that that hindsight that we have later in life, right? To go, I want you to have more than what I've had. And actually the more is the education that we didn't have. You know, like every generation wants the next one to be better off. But I think the theme that I'm seeing through that is they want that, you know, these women now want the next generation to be better off from an education point of view because they know the challenges that they had, you know, in their life. Um, you know, which is really encouraging, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I I the other thing I I that I've really noticed and I'd love to sort of touch on is, I guess, that behavioural lens, which is, you know, the the idea of wealth building has always coming back to that sort of frivolous thing. It's all it's always been framed as something about willpower, right? You know, you've got to be really strong, you know, to not spend money or to spend money, and you've got to have these strict, you know, budgets and, you know, like no one really wants to budget. Like it's not an exciting thing to do. We we want the end result, which is we want to feel financially free and we want to feel strong and confident that our money's doing what it should do. But then we kind of get locked in this, I've got to act, I've got to learn more, I've got to do more. And that's where we're coming unstuck, right? Because the whole world for women right now is about adding more stuff to all the things that they expected to do. And so that's where we've taken this twist with Tap the Gap, which is really about saying, well, you don't need to do that. You don't need to budget harder. This is something that is automated, right? You're doing it anyway. So it's kind of a a set and forget in some aspects. You, you know, you take five minutes to sign up and like connect everything up, and then you just go and live your life, right? So we're not trying to build a new behavior or yeah, build another thing. We're kind of taking this default angle, which actually I think is is the power in it, right? And I mean, there was a really interesting example over in Austrian Germany, which was about organ donation. Now, what what they found was that essentially in Austria, you automatically became an organ donor unless you ticked a box to say you wanted to opt out, right? But in Germany, you had to tick a box to say, I want to opt in. Now, Austria's registration rate was 99%, right? Because you had to actively say, you know, no, I'm really against this. But yeah, in Germany, you really had to um, you know, make that decision then and there. And that was a hard decision for people to make. So they had lower uptake. So I just find it really interesting to go, if we rely sheerly on willpower in that moment, we're not always going to achieve what we want to achieve, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Because if you come to women at every single time and stage and go, I need you to think about this decision. I need you to think about this wealth building thing, they're just not going to get there in the end.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Yeah. I mean, what we have so many things to think about, also like nuts, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:30

The mental load, the mental load is really crazy. And that is predominantly what we hear from our customers. And, you know, people make great efforts, you know. I've heard stories of people consolidating their super and trying to get, and that means kind of taking, oh, I've got multiple funds and I want to put them in one. And for the listeners, that's a good idea because you only want to pay one set of fees, right? So, you know, I've heard stories of people doing all of that and then they've got to the end of it and one super fund's in their maiden name, not their married name, and then they hit a block and they're like, oh gosh, you know, and then they stop. Now, a lot of that ultimately, if you know what you're doing, the super fund you're moving to will help you with that process. And it's not as complex as you might think, but it's what you think at the time. And a lot of people think that engaging with their super is really complex, right? But it's not as much of it is. So, yeah, that's where I just think this this whole thing about behavior and the way that you know we have to reframe that and kind of lean into these default behaviors, that's where the power is for women. So, yeah, stop doing so much and do a bit less and you know, be potentially better off, as we say, in the financial circles. You could be better off.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

We can't guarantee.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. I think with the behavior as well. I love how a tap the gap is embedded into the everyday thing that we do anyway, which is like tapping your card. Like you're already purchasing. It's not something besides, I guess, like signing up and syncing all the accounts. It's not something that you have to do like all the time, like long something every purchase. And to your point about like budgeting, I think it's like there's only so much that you can budget. It's like your income is like, yeah, you can budget your the disposable income that you have. Yeah. But there's a limit to it. I don't really like besides all the budgeting that you can do. I'm a big fan of like try to create more income and create more revenue streams than just like how many coffees can I have this week? It's it's it's really there's something that you can do.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

You're right. Well, that's the optimism angle that you're taking, right? Rather than the deficit, which is what can I cut out in order to get ahead or what can I, what can I enhance, you know, to get ahead. And so, yeah, we're leaning into that optimism, which is you do have power right now. And it doesn't matter if you're 25 or 55. One of the things that I want a 55-year-old woman to know is that yes, you are closer to retirement, but the money that you have in your super keeps on investing past that date, right? So it invests for the next 20 years as you draw down your pension salary on it. And a lot of people don't know that because you know what? Like, no shame. It wasn't explained. I didn't know that three and a half years ago. I thought you just got a lump sum and rode off into the sunset in a winnebago, you know? You know, that you just took it all out and you bought one thing. Do you know what I mean? Like, and it doesn't help the fact that you've got a government pension and a super pension. Like they've both got the same name, but they're different things. So yeah, like this system is fraught with unnecessary complexity, I think, and kind of setting us up to fail. But yeah, and that I mean, that's the reason we exist, right? To do that. So I think, yeah, whatever stage you're at, there's always potential in now. And even if you are putting in $20 a week or like, you know, our users at the moment are putting in around $40, like $40 to $44 a month, which is sort of around $10 a week. It doesn't sound like much, but that can be an extra $35 to $40K, you know, over 30 years, right? Which isn't, isn't nothing, you know. It's huge. Um, and that that's just that money alone. If you add that to what you've already got in your super and it's compounding and growing, then that number could be even greater. Yeah. So I think I think if we can say to people today, it's not about like trying harder, it's just about being a little bit smarter. Absolutely. And this is what we're trying to do is make it a smarter option, you know, for women. And I can see, you know, we have men on the platform as well, non-binary individuals, like tap the gap is for everyone. And we've even seen, you know, we've got men on the platform who are putting money in their spouses super, you know, which is fantastic, right? And this is a community issue, which really, you know, if we look at it, it's not just about women having less, it's actually about Australia, like underestimating the economic impact that women have on our economy, right? And that's like a really big, chunky kind of topic. Yeah. I think, yeah, it's really, it's really important that we look at that because, you know, women aren't earning as much. They live longer, you know, they're gonna they're, you know, we're classy birds, we stay, we stay alive. We do. We're healthy. Yeah. And and I and I look at that and I go, look, there's a lot to be done from a lot to be gained, should I say, from women's involvement in the economy and also making women stronger economically. You know, we know um there's huge, there's trillions of dollars every um every week that we're losing from the economy. You know, Deloitte and IS did a fantastic report, The Big Um, The Big Lift, which was talking about our capability as a nation and our financial capability, should I say. And, you know, we're leaving a lot on the table. It's kind of the system itself that's failing us, you know? So it's not women's fault, but not only are we kind of ending up on the streets ourselves from an individual point of view when we retire, but we can't take part in the economy. And we're actually just, we'll be draining the economy, right? So there's all of this stuff that the government and Australia seeks to gain by helping women participate more in the economy and growing their own wealth. Everything from, you know, being able to ensure afford the insurance you need later in life to, you know, actually moving more money and spending more money in the economy later in life. You know, there's just a real gamut of things because, yeah, if we look at some of those things from an insurance point of view, I mean, that's a whole other category where women weren't really considered from a structural infrastructure point of view. Again, it's a financial system that wasn't really designed to reflect the way women work and live. Like if you get an insurance policy right now as a woman, you're kind of considered a risk, right? Really? I actually didn't know that. Yeah, you you have time off work, you know, you if you're gonna rear children, like that's a risk. You might, you know, there's a chance you'll die in childbirth. Like these are very small percentages, but these are all parts of a female's life story that don't factor in like to a male story, right? Yeah. And women are living very differently than they lived years ago, right? It's all of these things, I think, if you look at it, you know, like my story, part of Tap the Gap comes from, you know, my mum separated from my dad. She was a primary school teacher, she brought up four kids by herself, and she didn't have any super when she retired, right? Oh my god, why? Now that's yeah, like that's the system letting her down, right? And letting down all of these carers, these amazing, you know, people who don't get paid right at the you know, higher tier, the nurses, the teachers, you know, that care economy. And I know there's huge discussion around that and talking about care credits and how can we actually value that contribution to the economy. But I think if we, yeah, if we look back at it, you know, mum contributed, she was really productive, right? Like she was a productive individual. She taught kids, future taxpayers, she brought up four kids, and we're all doing reasonably okay. So if you look at her from a productivity point of view, she's a highly productive member of society. And yet that's not being reflected. And so I think, you know, we know that productivity in our nation and innovation has slowed, right? Like our productivity is at like 1%. If we take a step back and go, well, women have so much to offer, so much, let's get them engaged in the economy more and look at that productivity behind it, like what we could actually achieve. So yeah, I mean, there was, I think there was an article this week that really from the University of New South Wales talked about just what we're missing with this innovation gap, right? And that was a lot to do with funding women and female founders, like in tech. Yeah. Which is obviously a huge topic, but it it really does have that connective tissue, right? Because it's not just about funding women businesses, it's actually about, you know, what that means for the economy greater. Like we've got all this innovation power and we're missing out on half of it because we're not letting that go forward. I don't know what you think of that.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

I think because obviously where I where I sit on is like on the investor side. And I also do uh I also do workshops every month called Invest Like a Woman. And it's really like very basic foundational investment lens. Cause to your point earlier, investing, thinking about your wealth, it's a muscle. You have to really have runs on the board, you have to have the breadth of experience. We can't make big decisions without making small decisions first. So oh, I love that. I love that, yes. So you have to make like those reps and like, yes, there will be some losses along the way. That's part of life that's normal. But where am I going with this? But basically, it's you we have to make more discussions about this and have more safe spaces so that women can feel confident to invest, make and take into account that like yes, investing has a risk. And actually, we need to think about the risk management. If you own a business, do you then invest in risky assets? No, because you're already living a risky lifestyle.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Yeah, yeah. Point, pointing, Casey. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Yeah. So so that's what I guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to have like these rooms, more and more of like women to come into these rooms. And you and I are, I would like to say, educated about like investing, and we have more to learn as well. But sometimes when I lead those workshops, it reminds me of this is important, we should do more of this. Because there are certain people, especially people in healthcare, who they provide so much value, but because again, like their brain cells are so consumed with like health, the science around health and providing care so that people live.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Yes, a reasonable important job, I'd say.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

A very important job. But also then what's left to learn about their finances, it's the they're exhausted, right? Yeah, so of course you you have to like make room for that. And yeah, we need to have more of these conversations and create more rooms to kind of okay, people can talk about investing and this and that, but how do you actually move from no investing to actually investing those funds?

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Yeah, yeah. And you know what? I I love what you said. I'm I'm I'm stilling the Japan thing as well, and the Japan, like the build to the lady, and the small decisions allow you to make the big one, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

I mean, I think it's true of anything in life that you you don't build confidence in really big, chunky moments, like you build them in kind of tiny pieces, and then all of a sudden you sort of you're standing in that confidence and you don't kind of realize how you got there. But I think that's what we have to do with women and money and investing in particular. And that's why we look at, you know, tap the gap and how we're talking to women about super, which is actually teaching them about investing, right? And who knows where our product will be in the future as to what we offer. But when you understand super, you do understand investment because, you know, that's fundamentally what it is. Everyone, everyone is an investor. Every woman is an investor. Like if you're listening to this call and you have a job or you've ever had a job, you're an investor. You might just be a sleepy one, you know? So it's helping people wake up to that realization that this is their money, you're in control. And yeah, treat it like a necessary thing, like treat it like your health and well-being, you know, like you, like your exercise, as you put it, to learn and practice a little bit more. And then things become easier and they become habits, which is, you know, really what we want people to think about, you know, in terms of, yeah, moving from that world, like that chasm that you described, is we're going from sort of everyday banking to sophisticated investor, and it feels like there's nothing in between. And it feels like I could never do that running jump across the massive ditch, you know, from hey, I've got a mortgage and a savings account, and, you know, that's kind of it, to oh my, oh my goodness, I understand the markets and I've got different, I've got crypto and all sorts of different types of investments. We do need stuff to meet people in the middle and hold their hand across that massive gap. And that's where I see the great opportunity, you know, for things that you're doing yourself and things that tap the gap can do. And yeah, working together, right? With with women and with community institutions. Like it's just been so lovely. I've had lots of people reach out lately saying, hey, like the people in my community be really interested in this. Let's work together. And I kind of love that, right? Like I love that collaboration is the heart of what can drive change in this space, as opposed to, I don't know, just expecting people to kind of work it out for themselves, right? And I think that's what women are fantastic at. We're really good collaborators at heart. So women in business, we stick together and we're all here to pull each other up the ladder, which is what I'm finding. I think that sentiment, you know, yes, we can talk about the doom and gloom of the 2%, which, you know, is is tragic. But I I know that that's changing and I know that there's a shift there, and I can feel it with the people around me. Uh, and even the way that I see the ecosystem now, even after 18 months of being in it, like I will try and help anyone who needs help, you know, and I will give them my time when I can because I know what it's like to be, you know, further back in the journey. And you need that help because you need people to encourage you because the odds are stacked against you. So yeah, I th I think we're at a stage where things are, you know, moving in the right direction, both for women in technology to build these businesses and also for women in investing to really understand not just the basics, but yeah, to move forward in in their progression.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Huge, huge, huge, huge. And I know like as we're about to uh wrap things up, and I wanna implore all the women who are listening to this as well to like have your feet into investing, have your feet into tech, uh would love to know from your side, Lucy. You know, you you've worked um in advertising, you've launched a book, you've produced a book, and now producing fintech company software. What would you advise to 20-year-olds today?

SPEAKER_00 43:47

20 year olds. Okay. So two things. Just it, enjoy. Enjoy being young and optimistic, which I love. I'm a forever optimist, but do stay optimistic. And I know there's lots of challenges out there for you thinking the world ahead is really uncertain, but you have power in your optimism, right? You can shape the world any way you want. In terms of your finances, and particularly when it comes to super, if you're in your 20s, just stop what you're doing and look at your super app right now and see what you've got in there and don't panic or don't think that, oh, I'll do this later. Start now. Start today. Even if it's $5 a week that you want to put in, you know, just know that time is on your side. And, you know, whether you think I'm this older woman trying to give you this sage advice or whatever, um, take it as you will. But honestly, you will thank me. You'll be you'll be telling people about this later on. So know that if you're 20, time is on your side. And the choices you make now will set up the choices that you're able to make later in life because financial independence creates choice. And that's all I want for the women of Australia and around the world is to have choice. There you go. All the options that you have.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

And that's really the goal of investing as well. It's yes, it can make you a billionaire, millionaire, but also it gives you choice and option.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Yeah. Yeah. And that's what you deserve. That's what all women deserve because we all work hard, whether you're working at home, looking after children, caring for someone, or working in the workplace and being paid wages. We all work hard throughout our lifetimes and we always care for other people, often ahead of ourselves. So yeah, getting your financial independence and making sure that you build that for yourself creates choice. And that's everything from leaving a job, leaving, you know, walking away from a bad relationship, traveling or starting a business. When you have that great foundation, you can do whatever you want. And you'll probably do something awesome, right? And we need more of that.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Well, thanks, Lucy, for being on the pod. I'm so excited to get this released and people know more about Tap the Gap.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Yeah, yeah. So look, if you're if Tap the Gap is of interest to you, you can jump on our website. We've got a web app right now, and we're pending release in App Store and Google Play. So that's coming in the next, you know, couple of weeks, hopefully. Just like get your skates on over there at Apple. And yeah, we've got a 14-day free trial. So sign up, connect your bank, try and do it all in one go because we know what life's like. Just take five minutes, get it set up, and then away you go. And yeah, love to hear from you. Reach out via our website. Yeah, and follow us on tap.theGap on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

Thank you for listening to another episode of Fiery Femmes. If this resonated, share it with a woman in your life because we rise higher when we rise together. Don't forget to follow and review. It helps more women access the tools and conversations that build wealth and confidence. For more career and financial empowerment, come hang out on Instagram and YouTube at FieryFams. I'll see you in the next episode.